Then there is the whole LakeRead more . OK. I came to watermark on a visit with my sons family. Being your authentic self in community with others is the goal, they say. Watermark was founded in November 7, 1999 with an outward-focused ministry that sought to minister to "the unchurched, dechurched, dead-churched and unmoved." [1] Watermark averages about 9,000 weekly attendants. The over-humility seems fake, like false humility. Thats why people leave churches snd are constantly hurt. Im heart broke and still excited to see what Lord and how He is going to carry out this. Incorrect. All Campuses . Case Summary. And thanks for the word smarmy. No one is perfect including Todd.. he is not God. If you challenged him or the church you were quickly dismissed. Religious Organization. I think you may have missed a decimal point according to the link in the post his house (verified to be the correct Todd Wagner) was a little over $1.5 million as of 2019. On the cult thing: LIsten to this longer presentation from a high school ministry event. Before coming to Watermark, I never knew the Bible could be applied to my life. Todd gave me support and comfort during a rough time in my life, and I will be FOREVER grateful. And this is important. Several weeks after Leventhals resignation, Wagner separately decided to step down as senior pastor and elder, the churchs statement said.. This church sounds exhausting and prideful. I dont have an extensive history with Wagner but several of my closest friends say that they saw this same controlling, egotistic behavior back in the 1990s when he came to Dallas to lead a high school group called K Life. Todd could use he had no use for you. It is very helpful and lets us plan financially well. Yes WM hides abusers and minimizes victims. I was blessed to attend Kanakuk for years and years. By our measure our savior Jesus was a total and complete failure. I didnt feel the spirit when I heard him. Are you familiar with the website, No Eden Elseware? I was so disappointed reading all the comments, especially when considering the targeted audience for this site. Thanks for the reply. Im confused about your statement that the crowd Jesus drew wanted to see him tortured to death in the most cruel way possible. The Judge overseeing this case is TAPSCOTT, KEN. And some community groups are less intense. Yeah, I glanced at it. The house was gifted to him by an extremely successful member of the church. Hes definitely not perfect, but he is a good and Godly man who preached the gospel boldly and consistently. We have ministry partners with boots on the ground, helping to love and serve others by meeting their immediate physical and spiritual needs. Ive said my bit, not interested in burning much more time, unless you or anyone wants to leave a number to meet to discuss Jesus, WM or Todd. I merely want to get the facts out on the table. MacArthur's Grace Community Church of Sun Valley had been involved in months of legal battles with state and local officials . I will never forget the screams of desperation and loss I felt as a young Christian woman. yes, things do not add up. (How many of you have actually prayed for Todd)? Its a really bad idea in my opinion because its not being totally forthright with members about what the church actually teaches. even so, i think its patently obvious that living as the 1% by 1st world standards, even in part, is lavish by any and all standards. Came off as legalistic trolling. Below are screenshots of their membership covenant. Set up and configure your eSignature workflows the way you want them. Appreciate your response! I have shepherded groups at Re|EngageI do not trust the leadership at WM Re|Engage. business Top 100. to the homeless person in Dallas, it might be a hot meal and a warm bed, a job, eventually a home of some kind (a room to call their own, a studio, an apartment,). that would be a better fit. Todd Wagner was preaching. I suppose you think you can do better than they? Most people in the U.S. have a lavish lifestyle compared to most believers around the world. Also, please note, you are free to leave Watermark Church at any time. Todd had 6 children living at home at the time he was gifted the home.. Mickey makes it sound like the decision for Todd to resign was something weve arrived at due to events. Not that difficult, really. Where appropriate, upon request,. Products. If you were not From Highland Park or University Park Todd Had no use for you. Its gotten popular which makes me suspect. Or you perfect? I wonder what is considered a lavish lifestyle. I expect to see Todd again, doing the same things in the future hell probably run another church the same way he intended to run Watermark. I verified it. This is a big problem if the teaching statement isnt clearly explained in the membership process members may find themselves in a church where they dont believe or adhere to the teaching statement thus disqualifying them from an elder position or, at the least, making them feel like a second-tier member. According to a report by National Public Radio, the Catholic Church has paid more than $3 billion in child sexual abuse lawsuit settlements in America alone. I first visited Watermark in 2005 when they were still meeting at a high school in Dallas. Watermark Community Church abuse. As for two doctrinal statements, our church has something similar, one for members and one for leaders. Different guys. He did end the video by defining what HE thought the three marks of a cult were: Im going to address #3, because I did my own Google search of the Dallas County Central Appraisal District and discovered that Todd Wagner lives in a $1.5 million dollar home in a very prestigious area of Dallas. I went home and felt a renewed sense of spirit. As per usual, all white and all males. And, there was zero pressure from church leadership to do so. While he was pastor at another church in Dallas he followed this same doctrine of sin and follower of Jesus Christ. Our mission is to Love God, Love People, and Serve the World. A major focus of the Community Groups at Watermark and many other churches is to foster the development of deep connection with a small group of fellow believers that enables true Christian accountability. Sure, lets not address anything that is rumored to be strange about Watermark and say that Jesus sounded cultish. Still havent found a church I like since. I asked Susan if she wouldnt mind answering a few questions for this post, which she was happy to do. Todd was my counselor at Kanakuk Camps for a summer. The Yelp algorithm is strange. We know a number of people who attend Watermark due to our 10 year stay in dallas. yes, that is a valid question. I have however heard Todd Wagner say from the pulpit if youre not comfortable giving here thats ok, please give somewhere meaningful to you. Another $ maker? If you arent a covenant member at Watermark Church, you cant join a community group, and that is where all the getting involved starts. It was one of the many things I thought they did well. What do you mean exactly by re-victimization. Its not a cult. Wagner founded Watermark in 1999 with the expressed purpose of ministering to "the unchurched, dechurched, dead-churched and unmoved." The church grew rapidly and now has campuses in Dallas, Frisco, and Plano. covenant, In the Bible, can you name Problem with the churches these days is many in congregation will do same thing as Judas did, deny !! He is a gifted teacher and speaker and could have made so much more money over the years with the opportunities he was given, but he didnt take them. Also resigned is David Leventhal, an elder and teaching pastor at Watermark, who said he had lost trust in Wagner's leadership. Yet, Mickey Friedrich says: [dont] try and judge whose version of events is right or wrong, and that even Friedrich and Thompson land at a different place than (Leventhal and Wagner) regarding why weve arrived here.. A pastor or elder does not automatically have spiritual authority due to his position in a church. Confession, of course! One question is The twin resignations come after months of turmoil at the church. But, you provide NO evidence, NO situations Spiritual authority has nothing to do with title, education, or rhetorical ability (2 Cor 10-13). I dont mean to discredit anyones experience, but mine overall has been encouraging, and yes, challenging, but biblically sound. The Watermark spokesperson explained that the church followed the Dallas Independent School District's "standard and customary process for this . My soul was touched. I would be ok disclosing financial information to my community group. He could have thanked his friend for his generosity, and politely declined the gift, suggesting he would love for the proceeds from the resale of the house be donated to a local homeless charity instead. i dont believe a word he says. Im also a bit a sad with respond of David (elder) who is in the leadership role to show the love with staring at the congregation (may be because of challenges). Author: this is unequivocally WRONG. Im not saying that the Watermark Todd Wagner lives in a shack, by any means. As for the doctrinal statement issue, I see what you are saying. In the online video, Leventhal described the process of discernment with Wagner as heart-breaking, exhausting, and expensive for Leventhal, his wife, the elder team, and the campus pastor team. Theres no independent authority (like a congregational vote or a higher denominational officer) that can remove an elder in this government structure. There are more than one people with the name Todd Wagner. Or evasion? It was meant to jerk everyones chain. Theres a lot of talk and a lot of Christianese language, but its still impossible to say exactly what happened or exactly what is and was going on. Also resigned is David Leventhal, an elder and teaching pastor at Watermark, who said he had lost trust in Wagners leadership. How many have you all lead to Christ? Psychological warfare Is a good name for it. The Christian Post's Leonardo Blair wrote an eyeopening post titled Dallas megachurch pastor who confessed to sin of pride resigns. If youd like a suggestion for a charity outside of our church well gladly help you. They dont even take a collection in church! No One Knows. Third, Todd said Christians should live their lives in a way that looks radical or extreme to other people, and Watermark is the best at it, because most churches arent very radical! In these community groups you are enmeshing your entire life into the church. If the things she claims were stated from the pulpit are true, there should be plenty of documentation. Watermark Community Church is a nondenominational evangelical megachurch based in Dallas, Texas . eSignature; that the elder board was ready to go in Todds leadership direction. Thanks for giving up the last word. -, You write about the website, No Eden Elsewhere. He didnt even buy the house, it was gifted by a member years ago. Wow! As directed by Scripture, Watermark makes a distinction between regularly attending and being a formal member of our church. To donate, click here. Wagner blatantly blasphemed Holy Scripture, hence your whitewash of content and material issues. I went to a church with a broadly evangelical membership statement coupled with a specifically Calvinistic, and specifically young earth creationist, teaching statement. And so have I. Log In. How many times have you actually talked to Todd? Another requirement for membership is that you find an area in which to serve in the church. **THEIR shepherds** i watched the video dont know how i got as far as i did i had to turn it off. Im thankful you have experienced the controlling, entrapment, and triangulating side of WM. insincere; smooth-tongued, slick; greasy, oily, saccharine; THAT is what these people are afraid of. Additionally, unless you have seen all of the financial reports from the last 22 yrs, you have no idea how Wagner was compensated. Not in your writing, but in the people who felt that they were being personally attacked and never took the time to speak to a leader or to actually consider the teachings that are found in the Bible. Our daughters went to the same grade school and were on the same soccer team. even if 100% true (zero exaggeration or embroidery), it almost makes it sound like Todd was an unwitting victim of disproportionate generosity and was utterly helpless. We don't remove someone's formal status as a member for struggling with sin - whether that sin is pride, materialism, or sexual sin. Not to gotcha, but I just want to set the record straight that the gift tax doesnt make it unrealistic that Todds family was gifted that house. At least that was my experienceRead more , The house referenced in the post belongs to the correct Todd Wagner. The building and nine acres of land located in an area of Dallas that has a predominant minority population were purchased by the evangelical church for $211,000, according to a government document. i felt like i was watching and listening to animated cardboard characters. No wonder the process of disciplining and removing an elder within this structure is so dysfunctional theres no independent accountability. however, since evangelical leaders have redefined gossip to mean dont rock the boat to protect their power, careers, and revenue, can you explain what you mean by gossip? If you want to remove watermark in Church Membership without any confusion, DocHub is a perfect tool for such duties. Since November, it appears two other Watermark elders have left the original board of six menBrian Buchek and Beaut Fournet. They have brought a civil lawsuit against the Church of Scientology for stalking and intimidation that occurred after they reported their assaults to the police. A Texas appeals court will decide whether the Watermark Community Church went too far in its attempt to save a church member's marriage. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account. And in Ecclesiastes 12:14, For God will bring every deedRead more , I would be curious to know if you are ok with disclosing all of your financial information to your community group and seeking their approval on life decisions? https://www.wadeburleson.org/2015/05/five-reasons-to-say-no-to-church.html, Jer 50:6 utterly un-credible. Our church has an elder-type rule that is healthy, but I know of churches that have had an elder-type rule that is not so healthy. In this murky situation, however, the two men dont need honorary titles. Does God want everyone to be broke? In principle it was excellent. If a member doesnt leave in good standing, WM will pursue that person and enforce church discipline. In my opinion, its best to have the teaching statement serve as the unifying statement that covers both members and elders, so that those who attend and who are working through their beliefs dont prematurely sign a membership covenant that in reality places them under the pastoral authority of elders who adhere to the teaching statement. Sounds like something Whoopie Goldburg would say. In the video, Wagner said that the clarity to step down was not hasty, adding that the discernment process had started a year ago. Those who love control and achievement thrive very well there. The building was used for free to us (but not them). I have edited some of her answers for content and length. Aside from the fact that it was gifted to him (alarming at the very least) it shows poor stewardship and lack of humility on Wagners part. They were not giving Him a standing ovation. That church is huge and has 2 campuses (at least) so I find it hard to believe you even know these elders yourself. In our church, this is clearly laid out during the membership process. Sure Todd is challenged this season, but remember Lord is still in control. They refuse to be honest so they can make a come back in a year or two. Ill happily answer any questions, but for any Believers here I would strongly encourage you to first take this to the Lord in prayer, then His word, and then ask yourself if its healthy or wise or appropriate to make such claims about a person / place you know almost nothing about. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Definitely they are important to Christian theology, but they fall within a spectrum of orthodox third-rank doctrines. I know him on a first name basis, as I do some of those elders on the stage. One of the core values of the community groups is Live Authentically, which they define as being completely honest with one anotherthis means giving others permission to know the real you by sharing authentically. This includes sharing your sins, struggles, along with your entire life story, potentially to a room full of complete strangers. When he stepped into an executive pastor role a few years back he didnt like that his replacement (JP) was more poly than he was so he didnt allow him to pastor/lead. My challenge to Susan is to give citations for the quotes she gives. You are correct. what is enough? TWW last left Wagner on leave due to pride in Todd Wagner, the Controversial Pastor of Watermark Church, Steps Away *for a Season. As the CG leader, I went first. Seems there are some Watermark menbers Its extremely worrisome that they feel they have to hide and be afraid of what Watermark Church may say or do in response to them telling the truth about their abuse. Sure, we made friends with our peers in the class and had fun at summer camp, and it all developed out of normal human interaction. The judge in the case ruled for church arbitration, which for Scientologists and former Scientologists means something completely different than the average person. You can see it on their instagram! -, Watermark Community Church has believers SIGN Community groups are the epicenter of Watermark Church. He then applied the words Paul used to describe his apostolic ministry in Acts 20:26-32 to his own tenure at Watermark: With a clear conscience, Im going to say this to you, Wagner said. Genuine question, The house was given to him from a member of the church years ago. Cant even begin to address this without feeling a sense of disappointment. 4774 square feet also poor stewardship unless hes raising 8 kids or something. Humility, self-awareness of our own sins, repentance, forgiveness and grace for others, these should not be forgotten. 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